Comments on: Why WYSIWYGs Suck http://jonraasch.com/blog/why-wysiwygs-suck Web development and design blog from Portland based developer Jon Raasch Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:38:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Becca Carter http://jonraasch.com/blog/why-wysiwygs-suck/comment-page-1#comment-1266 Becca Carter Fri, 07 Aug 2009 23:00:08 +0000 http://jonraasch.com/blog/why-wysiwygs-suck#comment-1266 -Jon i have used a few of the "cut and paste" build a site software packages...in the end no matter i still go back to my roots for the tricks i know i can do myself instead of wasting my time looking for the application that is supposed to do it. no matter what software you use...you still need to learn some coding. ~.~ Especially if you are a perfectionist about your site ;p Becca -Jon
i have used a few of the “cut and paste” build a site software packages…in the end no matter i still go back to my roots for the tricks i know i can do myself instead of wasting my time looking for the application that is supposed to do it. no matter what software you use…you still need to learn some coding. ~.~ Especially if you are a perfectionist about your site ;p
Becca

]]> By: Jon Raasch http://jonraasch.com/blog/why-wysiwygs-suck/comment-page-1#comment-845 Jon Raasch Tue, 07 Jul 2009 18:16:02 +0000 http://jonraasch.com/blog/why-wysiwygs-suck#comment-845 Thanks for the update to this post Gary and your many good points! To be honest I was a bit nooby when I wrote this one. I still think that no developers should ever use WYSIWYGs since they will never be able to compete with a human programmer with a vast knowledge of HTML/CSS. However I have learned to deal with WYSIWYGs since they really are an inevitability. There really is no way around WYSIWYGs for content managed websites. Content management means there is user generated content, and we can't hold average users or even our savvy clients to the same standards we hold ourselves. For instance when doing Drupal integration we have to interface with TinyMCE content. A good CSS programmer will have no problem styling this content. But I am very interested in improvements in web based WYSiWYGs, since they are integral to the new web. I'm considering doing a blog post soon comparing a few. Thanks for your comment, jr Thanks for the update to this post Gary and your many good points!

To be honest I was a bit nooby when I wrote this one. I still think that no developers should ever use WYSIWYGs since they will never be able to compete with a human programmer with a vast knowledge of HTML/CSS. However I have learned to deal with WYSIWYGs since they really are an inevitability.

There really is no way around WYSIWYGs for content managed websites. Content management means there is user generated content, and we can’t hold average users or even our savvy clients to the same standards we hold ourselves. For instance when doing Drupal integration we have to interface with TinyMCE content. A good CSS programmer will have no problem styling this content.

But I am very interested in improvements in web based WYSiWYGs, since they are integral to the new web. I’m considering doing a blog post soon comparing a few.

Thanks for your comment,
jr

]]> By: Gary Hepting http://jonraasch.com/blog/why-wysiwygs-suck/comment-page-1#comment-844 Gary Hepting Tue, 07 Jul 2009 17:54:40 +0000 http://jonraasch.com/blog/why-wysiwygs-suck#comment-844 I like your rant, but it must be slightly out-dated... There are CSS/xHTML producing WYSIWYG editors (I think even Dreamweaver has been updated to use CSS layout methods and content styling) currently available. Of coarse, there is no substitution for a knowledgeable and experienced web developer being involved in the web development process... People that use WYSIWYG editors are most likely not creating applications that will last for years and support new technologies and internet applications as they emerge. It's all about future-proofing. That is why we "waste" time converting old deprecated code with valid xHTML and CSS when we are forced to work on old code structures. We know that it SHOULD be like this and that all technologies, current and in the future, will be more than likely to support and properly interpret our code if it is structured properly and within the W3C and other standards. Besides, if we don't, we get phone calls from clients we've worked with in the past to "fix" things that break when new browsers that DO support standards are released! :) It's our duty as passionate developers of the internet to do things properly, advise our clients of the importance and necessity of these things, and ultimately make the internet a better place for future developers and users alike! - Gary I like your rant, but it must be slightly out-dated… There are CSS/xHTML producing WYSIWYG editors (I think even Dreamweaver has been updated to use CSS layout methods and content styling) currently available. Of coarse, there is no substitution for a knowledgeable and experienced web developer being involved in the web development process… People that use WYSIWYG editors are most likely not creating applications that will last for years and support new technologies and internet applications as they emerge.

It’s all about future-proofing. That is why we “waste” time converting old deprecated code with valid xHTML and CSS when we are forced to work on old code structures. We know that it SHOULD be like this and that all technologies, current and in the future, will be more than likely to support and properly interpret our code if it is structured properly and within the W3C and other standards.

Besides, if we don’t, we get phone calls from clients we’ve worked with in the past to “fix” things that break when new browsers that DO support standards are released! :)

It’s our duty as passionate developers of the internet to do things properly, advise our clients of the importance and necessity of these things, and ultimately make the internet a better place for future developers and users alike!

– Gary

]]> By: Xtence http://jonraasch.com/blog/why-wysiwygs-suck/comment-page-1#comment-200 Xtence Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:01:42 +0000 http://jonraasch.com/blog/why-wysiwygs-suck#comment-200 Where i use to work, all designers worked with a WYSIWYG, to save time !?! If you know your html and css well, you make it even faster, cause you write no bugs, and make it work in different browsers without a whole bunch of hacks in the code, if you can't validate you know why and what did made it happen. I know "webdesigners" who don't know nothing bout html, css and then they give they're template to a developer, who spontanious give it back because the code is like spaghetti.It just sucks. Nice blog, like it very much, keep on the good work! Where i use to work, all designers worked with a WYSIWYG, to save time !?! If you know your html and css well, you make it even faster, cause you write no bugs, and make it work in different browsers without a whole bunch of hacks in the code, if you can’t validate you know why and what did made it happen.
I know “webdesigners” who don’t know nothing bout html, css and then they give they’re template to a developer, who spontanious give it back because the code is like spaghetti.It just sucks.

Nice blog, like it very much, keep on the good work!

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